23:58 -!- nbozon [~chatzilla@AMontpellier-158-1-151-196.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #zoo-project
23:59 -!- venka [~chatzilla@i118-18-0-108.s11.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #zoo-project
23:59 < venka> Hi
23:59 < djay> Hi Venka :)
23:59 < nbozon> hello venka !
23:59 < jmckenna> hellloooooooooooooooooo
--- Day changed jeu. juil. 22 2010
00:00 < djay> nice to catch you on irc channel :)
00:00 < jmckenna> wow now we have a real open source project.  open communication!
00:00 < venka> Is every body OK to try chatzilla for this meeting?
00:00 < nbozon> +1, are we only 4 ?
00:01 < djay> + maxi which should join in some minutes
00:02 < venka> maxi is +0
00:02 < jmckenna> yes that means it does not matter to him
00:03 < jmckenna> now people interested in the project can follow along in the background - this is how osgeo operates
00:03 -!- Maxi_ [~chatzilla@host106-68-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #zoo-project
00:03 < venka> we are only 4 psc members here. i suggest that we continue on skype.
00:03 < venka> great maxi has joined.
00:03 < Maxi_> here i am
00:05 < venka> I propose Nick to chair this meeting and run us through the agenda.
00:05 < djay> +1
00:05 < jmckenna> +1
00:05 < Maxi_> +1
00:06 < nbozon> ok, +1 guys
00:06 < nbozon> loading the agendapsc5...
00:06 < jmckenna> url?
00:07 < nbozon> http://www.zoo-project.org/trac/wiki/PSC/meetings/PSCMeet5
00:07 < jmckenna> merci
00:07 < nbozon> agenda 1: ZOO WS at FOSS4G
00:08 < venka> Gerald and nick can brief. Has anyone tried the WS material. We got some feedback on PSC-ML.
00:08 < nbozon> so material URL (for psc member only): http://zoo-project.org/trac/wiki/ZooWorkshop2010/Content
00:08 < venka> yes.
00:08 < djay> no much feedbacks from the WS material on psc ml.
00:08 < nbozon> 29 participants according to jeff's last email
00:08 < Maxi_> numbers of subscribers is encouraging
00:09 < nbozon> so we based the WS on Creating OGR ZOO Service in C and/or Python
00:09 < venka> Is there still time to make some edits to the WS material?
00:09 < nbozon> particpants will have to chosse their favourite lang
00:09 < jmckenna> yes very.  i am not surprised to see grass and mapserver numbers low...this is the status of the community now -> people know the stable projects like grass and mapserver, they want to learn the new toys
00:10 < nbozon> true Jeff
00:10 < nbozon> so first step is requesting ZOO Kernel from OGSGeoLive
00:10 < jmckenna> time: no Oscar on workshop committee has done installs now, last i heard he did them the past 2 days in the workshop labs
00:10 < nbozon> then, create the service in C or python
00:10 < nbozon> and finally create a small WPS client with OL
00:10 < nbozon> 4 steps, 4 parts
00:10 < venka> We need to do some more publicity for WS. PgRouting is 100% already.
00:11 < djay> jmckenna: I don't see ZOO Project as a toy honnestly :)
00:11 < jmckenna> :)
00:11 < nbozon> 29 people is ok, as we are only 2 instructors
00:12 < venka> We are there to help if needed.
00:12 < jmckenna> ye exactly, it is more than enough
00:12 < nbozon> if some more, but i agree that a 100% would be much better for the project
00:13 < nbozon> so any questions on WS ?
00:13 < nbozon> i will announce it on ZOO twitter and LInkedin very soon, for advertisement
00:13 < djay> I think that WS is easy again, no more help should be needed (I hope ;c])
00:13 < venka> OK, the numbers look good. Some feed back from PSC within the next two weeks would be helpful .
00:14 < nbozon> yes i agree Venka . any other remarks ? can we skip to agenda 2 ?
00:14 < djay> Kampai Nick.
00:14 < Maxi_> I will promoteit on the italian gfoss list..
00:14 < nbozon> Kampai everyone !
00:15 < nbozon> ok nice MAxi
00:15 < jmckenna> :)
00:15 < venka> I was wondering about CGAL demos. Even if we do not use it at the WS, it is important to get the demos running before barcelona.
00:15 < djay> sure should be as easy as providing a geojson file containing points
00:15 < djay> (for the CGAL Demo I mean)
00:16  * jmckenna searches the what for what cgal is
00:16 < nbozon> for the WS, we prefered to keep things simple with OGR only , and let the choice of C/Python
00:16 < jmckenna> what/web
00:16 < nbozon> also because WS is only 3hours long
00:16 < venka> I think you need a WFS for Cgal, right.
00:17 < djay> jmckenna: was used to build voronoi triangulation 
00:17 < nbozon> jmckenna, 2D/3D geometry processing C library
00:17 < venka> I know WS is three hours. Will take two minutes to show other examples to folks.
00:17 < jmckenna> very cool! reading about it
00:17 < djay> jmckenna: cgal is massively used in pgrouting 
00:17 < jmckenna> ahh i see
00:17 < nbozon> http://www.cgal.org/
00:17 < djay> jmckenna: for driving distance if my brain doesn't lie to me 
00:18 < djay> Venka: we are currently fighting with MapServer (as Jeff know as we bother him today with questions) but we work with Nick on a ZOO MapServer WFS-T Service Provider 
00:18 < jmckenna> smart, yup no need to re-invent wheel
00:18 < djay> in fact the service provider itself is available as Jeff know already, we providen links before today
00:18 < jmckenna> you ask difficult questions! :)
00:18 < nbozon> Also, new demo section soon available on zoo-project.org
00:18 < djay> in fact we don't (and hopefully won't) modify MapServer to do that
00:18 < venka> Hayashi-san can provide MapGuide WPS for Cgal examples. We can setup Mapserver WPS, if necessary. would be nice to make some ZOO examples with MapGuide too.
00:19 < nbozon> WFS-T demo, OGR demo, GDAL demo
00:19 < nbozon> + Driftx WPS demo
00:19 < jmckenna> i need some background to assist.  i had no idea what u are working on.  sorry
00:19 < nbozon> all in same template (fulsscrenn and jquery based maps)
00:19 < jmckenna> what is providing the transactions?
00:19 < djay> we only build up a small proxy system redirecting to MapServer (for each wfs requests except transaction ones)
00:19 < jmckenna> anyway sorry i was of no assistance.  carry on with meeting
00:20 < nbozon> yes agenda 2 : Report on ZOO presentation at OSGIS, Nottingham
00:20 < nbozon> Gerald you can brief ?
00:20 < venka> What about my last question about CGAL and using MapGuide?
00:20 < nbozon> i finally wans't there, i miss the plane, so djay went alone
00:21 < venka> MapGuide too.
00:21 < djay> niI can brief, please give me the pock 
00:21 < djay> I agree Venka
00:22 < nbozon> ok, we'll see for CGAL venka
00:22 < djay> why talking about a long time working service provider :) ?
00:22 < venka> OK.
00:22 < nbozon> Please gerald debrief about OSGIS2010
00:23 < venka> Nice presentation by Gerald. Saw the webcast recording.
00:23 < nbozon> yes, great, i was live on webcast at that time
00:23 < venka> Long term provider Gerald?
00:24 < nbozon> no , i think gerald wanted to say that CGAL service is already working in fact
00:24 < nbozon> with some GML points
00:24 < nbozon> Vorinoï only
00:24 < venka> OK
00:24 < nbozon> Voronoï sorry
00:24 < djay> venka: I mean that the service provider which make its user able to produce voronoi triangulation is working since more than a year I think
00:24 < nbozon> so we can include  it in the new demo section
00:25 < nbozon> agenda 2 : Report on ZOO presentation at OSGIS, Nottingham ?
00:25 < venka> Gerald?
00:25 < djay> yes,
00:25 < venka> agenda 2:
00:25 < djay> so I get good contact with a bieautifull woman from GvSig association
00:26 < djay> the presentationS was really good
00:26 < djay> we take rendez-vous for the foss4g 2010
00:26 < venka> good for you, gerald. could you convince her to use zoo?
00:26 < djay> it was nice to meet Arnulf and Tyler, as always
00:26 < Maxi_> how may people there?
00:27 < djay> something like 80 (maybe 100)
00:27 < Maxi_> nice....
00:27 < venka> as big as theosaka meeting, i think.
00:27 < djay> I met also the guy from 52°North WPS
00:27 < Maxi_> the one in trento?
00:28 < djay> no another one
00:28 < venka> any talk about collaborations?
00:28 < jmckenna> i'd be interested to hear how they are funding the work..to get some ideas
00:28 < djay> both are cute guys 
00:28 < jmckenna> ?
00:28 < djay> :cD
00:28 < jmckenna> they are cute men?
00:28 < jmckenna> ha
00:28 < nbozon> ahaha
00:28 < venka> 52North is mainly funded by ESRI, I think.
00:28 < djay> </joke>
00:28 < Maxi_> :-o
00:29 < venka> and some European funds.
00:29 < Maxi_> I think too... ESRI sponsored, but also Gov funds
00:29 < jmckenna> we need to find a GeoConnections-like provider to grow ZOO, just like what happened to MapServer here in Canada from 2000-2005
00:30 < djay> yeah, in fact I sawmany projects which seems to be funded 
00:30 < jmckenna> anyway way off topic
00:30 < jmckenna> yes good.  i like that feedback djay !
00:30 < venka> tell us more. Jeff. but the funding issue is another (very important) agenda.
00:31 < nbozon> folks, i just added an item on PSCMeet5: http://www.zoo-project.org/trac/wiki/PSC/meetings/PSCMeet5
00:31 < Maxi_> what yo mean with GeoConnection like?
00:31 < nbozon> but i agree 100% for fundings and more developers
00:32 < venka> GeoConnection is proving Mapserver service.
00:32 < venka> I think.
00:32 < venka> right Jeff?
00:33 < djay> jmckenna: still here ?
00:33 < jmckenna> sorry was pulled into #foss4g
00:33 < jmckenna> back
00:34 < venka> go ahead, we have 20 minutes left.
00:34 < jmckenna> GeoConnections is a Canadian government funding initiative program.  without it MapServer would not have grown in the year 2000-2005, and DM Solutions Group would not be in existence
00:34 < Maxi_> ok, i see
00:34 < Maxi_> thanks for explanation :-)
00:34 < jmckenna> WMS/WFS/WCS/SLD.....and all my documentation...all came through that program
00:35 < jmckenna> interesting how "Open Source" world works isn;t it?? ha
00:35 < jmckenna> no problem.
00:35 < venka> I see too. We need to put together some ideas for seeking funding in the August PSC meeting and also after f2f at Barcelona.
00:35 < jmckenna> yes great plan
00:36 < venka> and Como. Maxi, are you at the Como meeting WebMGS2010?
00:36 < nbozon> yes sure i think we could also try to search funds with ZOOSM that Luca started
00:36 < jmckenna> i am sleeping on Max's couch. ha.
00:36 < nbozon> some companies / orgs are very interested in extraction service
00:36 < nbozon> for OSM
00:36 < Maxi_> yes, of course :-)
00:36 < nbozon> and ZOO can do that easily i thijk
00:36 < venka> gr8.
00:36 < jmckenna> ah interesting...data is the big buzz globally now
00:37 < jmckenna> mapserver/blah server..it's DATA everyone is concerned about
00:37 < nbozon> yes
00:37 < venka> OK. move to agenda 3:
00:37 < nbozon> OS software nedd Open Data
00:37 < nbozon> agenda 3: Recent and actual dev. (ZOO 1.1 plan)
00:38 < nbozon> everyone agree ? in 5 min
00:38 < venka> Maybe better to call it ZOO 1.0.1.
00:39 < venka> Agree Nick.
00:39 < venka> go ahead with your plan.
00:39 < nbozon> not if MapServer based WFS-t Service Provider is ok
00:39 < nbozon> Also some polishing of ZOOKernel is on the way by gerald
00:40 < nbozon> so it good reason for 1.0 i think
00:40 < venka> Mapserver WFS-T, can you give some details.
00:40 < djay> we use zoo mapserver service provider on the same server as the mapserver one
00:40 < venka> ZOO will provide WFS-T service as Mapserver extension?
00:41 < nbozon> no through using MapServer WFS and a proxy for Transactions
00:41 < djay> it will be something in parallel of mapserver
00:41 < nbozon> into a ZOo Service Provider
00:41 < djay> we get a proxy to redirect requests
00:42 < nbozon> same proxy can be done for MapGuide in the future too
00:42 < venka> That sound great. Would be a wonderful way to enable WFS-T for Mapserver. Jeff can get feedback from Mapserver community.
00:42 < nbozon> WFS-T support using WPS
00:42 < djay> absolutly, but currently we used the mapserver functions to load, parse the mapfile
00:42 < nbozon> MapServer folks should be happy if it works
00:43 < djay> then we use OGR to modify the real datasource corresponding to the typename edited
00:43 < nbozon> proxy is just getting the WFS feature
00:43 < venka> +1 for this idea. Request Jeff to discuss with Mapserver folks about this. We can also try to find ways to discuss with MapGuide folks.
00:44 < jmckenna> sure feedback no problem.  great way to get feedback is to show it in action in MS4W
00:44 < djay> in the futur some request should be handled differently as we should rewrite some response written by MapServer (to say for instance that we support Transaction on a typename)
00:44 < djay> jmckenna: can be great indeed
00:45 < djay> jmckenna: we should simply give it a try I think
00:45 < jmckenna> great.  i'd like to do this before our trip
00:45 < nbozon> well, August meetings will be a good time to show Kernel and Demo progress, as well as to speak about fundings and cartographic engines connections
00:45 < jmckenna> and demo it during our pre-foss4g meetings
00:46 < venka> At least to get some opinion on this from Daniel Morrisette etc.
00:47 < venka> Apart from funding, we need to think about working closely with other communities.
00:47 < nbozon> Jeff, if you want to give a try, i think you should svn checkout, or maybe ask for latest dev version to gerald
00:47 < venka> I also keep wondering why Geoserver folks are re-inventing their own WPS when they could use ZOO.
00:48 < jmckenna> nbozon: sure.  how long do i need to tackle this?
00:48 < jmckenna> wondering
00:48 < venka> what Jeff?
00:48 < Maxi_> I can ask to andrea aime if required...
00:49  * jmckenna works closely with andrea in #foss4g for benchmarking...which, will suck 100% of my time from now till event
00:49 < djay> jmckenna: depending if you get an OSGeo4W it should be quick to install and get a zoo running
00:49 < jmckenna> he is on vacation now
00:50 < jmckenna> phew
00:50 < venka> That would be nice maxi. Some others (including me) could ask Chris Holmes too.
00:50 < djay> venka: maby cause they want a different implementation
00:50 < jmckenna> i need to be cloned 10 times, to do all this free work :D
00:51 < venka> Jeff-Commercial and Jeff-Free clones.
00:51 < djay> I need the same thing Jeff, can you give me the number to call to get the clone effective ? :) 
00:52 < jmckenna> jeff-commercial is available.  jeff-free is overworked lol
00:52 < venka> About other improvements in ZOO1.1, djay?
00:53 < venka> Jeff-free has a stack overflow.
00:53 < djay> venka: mabe the reimplement things cause they want to get a java implementation (note that 52° North is in java too, but then maybe they want to do something different)
00:53 < djay> venka: full java implementation
00:53 < Maxi_> djay: or mybe because they did not really know zoo, or maybe they want their own product to commercialize..
00:54 < djay> opengeo platform on to of the java platform
00:54 < nbozon> but in java more difficult to get the multi-language support as ZOO-KErnel...
00:54 < djay> Maxi_: I fully agree
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00:54 < djay> bye Venka
00:54 < nbozon> oh we lost venka !
00:55 < djay> :(
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00:55 < nbozon> hi again
00:55 < djay> re daulphin
00:56 < nbozon> ok, next agenda: PSC PSC guidelines proposal page review and approval
00:56 < Maxi_> I read it and it is +1 for me
00:57 < jmckenna> is there something in this document that if u don't attend meetings for XX time then X happens?
00:57 -!- venka_ [~chatzilla@i118-18-0-108.s11.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #zoo-project
00:57 < djay> venka get a clone already
00:58 < jmckenna> >	is there something in this document that if u don't attend meetings for XX time then X happens?
00:58 < jmckenna> clone, ha!
00:58 < Maxi_> :-)
00:58 < jmckenna> maybe my suggestion isn't needed.  it just popped into my head though.  not sure if other PSCs have that
00:59 < jmckenna> e.g. if i don't join meetings for 6 months i don't think i should remain a PSC member.  hmm
00:59 < Maxi_> no i didn't see nothing similar.... but there is the Stepping Down process...
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01:00 < Maxi_> If a member is not active (e.g. no voting, no IRC, forum or email participation) for a period of six months then the committee reserves the right to seek nominations to fill that position.
01:00 < jmckenna> Maxi_: +1
01:00 < djay> Maxi_: +1
01:00 < nbozon> Maxi_:+1
01:01 < venka> That is good enough, I think. We better get some votes periodically. Like the vote for ZOO1.1 resease.
01:02 < jmckenna> great.  venka we never got your vote
01:02 < venka> +1
01:02 < venka> about inactive PSC members.
01:03 < venka> inactive in the sense of voting.
01:03 < jmckenna> right, as max described above
01:03 < venka> Are we into the next agenda 4: PSC guidelines?
01:03 < nbozon> yes we should be  !
01:03 < Maxi_> mmmm.... this is already in the PSC guidelines proposal...
01:03 < jmckenna> yes that is what we've been talking about for 10 minutes
01:04 < jmckenna> oh
01:04 < djay> :cD
01:04 < Maxi_> i mean the sentece i just copied...
01:04 < venka> I think what Maxi mentioned is already in the PSC guidelines and to enforce these guidelines we must have periodic voting on project related matter. Official voting should be om ML, I think.
01:05 < jmckenna> Maxi_: ah ok thanks for adding! :)
01:05 < venka> It has been in the Guidelines since the beginning.
01:05 < Maxi_> yes....
01:06 < nbozon> so everybody said +1 i think
01:06 < nbozon> for this close
01:06 < djay> are we corum ?
01:06 < venka> Anyway, Maxi was supposed to make some minor changes about Quorum etc in the Guidelines. Has this been done, Maxi. It case all are satisfied, we could approve the final version of PSC guidelines.
01:07 < venka> Quorum.
01:07 < djay> s/corum/quorum
01:07 < nbozon> i agree Venka
01:07 < venka> 5 out of 9 is quorum.
01:08 < nbozon> ok so everybody's +1 ?
01:08 < djay> +1
01:08 < nbozon> +1
01:08 < Maxi_> veka: do you propose to vote on the ML periodically on zoo release and roadmap?
01:08 < venka> +1
01:08 < jmckenna> +1 for max's change
01:08 < jmckenna> sorry after 1 hour my brain dies in meetings
01:09 < nbozon> votes on the roadmap should also happen onedays
01:09 < venka> +1 for voting on ML on some project related matters.
01:09 < nbozon> by email/irc/skype
01:09 < djay> +1 (following venka)
01:09 < jmckenna> periodically?
01:09 < Maxi_> +1 on approving PSC guidelines
01:10 < venka> when necessary. But we have to find a way of keeping track of which PSC members is actively voting. No way to keep track if there is nothing to vote for.
01:10 < nbozon> ok so the PSC guidelines is approved by quorum of 5 out 9
01:10 < jmckenna> venka: +1
01:10 < venka> Move to next Agenda?
01:11 < Maxi_> Recent and future dev, itt could be presented and voted monthly on ML, so also others can see it
01:11 < nbozon> final agenda: Next meeting schedule
01:11  * jmckenna wow i'll be in como for next psc meeting1
01:11 < venka> And also take a vote about using ChatZilla for the future meetings. Some PSC seem to prefer Skype.
01:12 < jmckenna> sure vote can occur on ML
01:12 < Maxi_> +0 for IRC
01:12 < jmckenna> or now :)
01:13 < venka> On ML is better.
01:13 < nbozon> ok, Next meeting schedule ?
01:13 < jmckenna> i move that we limit all meetings, whatever venue, irc or skype, to one hour
01:13 < venka> Yep.
01:13 < Maxi_> jeff: +1
01:13 < venka> +1
01:13 < nbozon> +1
01:14 < djay> +1
01:14 < jmckenna> great
01:14 < Maxi_> so, next schedule?
01:14 < jmckenna> when do you want to have the next meeting?
01:14 < jmckenna> are we rotating morning/nights?
01:14 < nbozon> during WebMGS may be ?
01:15 < nbozon> yes, and most PSC memeber will be on european time
01:15 < nbozon> i guess
01:15 < Maxi_> yes, it is the day time for Como :-D
01:15 < jmckenna> best to pick a time.  you know how events can be
01:16 < jmckenna> 25th evening?
01:16 < venka> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=8&day=25&hour=13&min=0&sec=0
01:16 < venka> ?
01:17 < venka> evening is fine too, most of us will be on the same timezone.
01:17 < jmckenna> 3pm Rome time. interesting.  prefer evening if we are same time zone
01:17 < Maxi_> yes, maybe at 18pm Rome (16 UTC)
01:18 < Maxi_> meeting and then pizza :-P
01:18 < jmckenna> sure.  then food and wine :)
01:18 < jmckenna> Maxi_: yes!   hahahahaahahaha we are alike
01:18 < Maxi_> :-D
01:18 < jmckenna> so that's http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=8&day=25&hour=16&min=0&sec=0
01:19 < jmckenna> +1
01:19 < venka> +1
01:19 < djay> +1
01:19 < Maxi_> +1
01:19 < nbozon> +1
01:19 < djay> can't meet f2f at that date ?
01:20 < jmckenna> ???
01:20 < venka> where are the logs of these meeting available?
01:20 < jmckenna> ha
01:20 < venka> f2f in Como can be on 26th or 27th lunch?
01:21 < nbozon> ok we can organize f2f from 24th i think
01:21 < nbozon> to 25th
01:21 < nbozon> sorry, 27th
01:22 < nbozon> ok so next PSC meeting i decided, so i suggest we close that meeting
01:22 < jmckenna> +1
01:22 < djay> +1
01:22 < nbozon> 1h24 long !
01:23 < venka> Send the summary of the meeting to the PSC ML, Nick.
01:23  * jmckenna off to eat something
01:23 < venka> +1 to close meeting bye all.
01:23 < nbozon> ok, better to send a link to the logs i think
01:23 < djay> enojy your meal jmckenna 
01:23 < jmckenna> bye guys.   thanks djay !   better meals in europe though :)
01:24 < nbozon> ok bye all
01:24 < Maxi_> ok, bye all and thanks ;-P
01:24 < djay> bye all
01:24 < venka> bye
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